Fish Guy (The Shape of Water Review)
Kat and Ryley review the film The Shape of Water. Theme: Creature Features.
This episode is sponsored by HeavyBrutus.com
Review Overview: Is it a beautiful and heartwarming movie? Yes. Is it a little uncomfortable to watch? Also yes.
It had good intentions with presenting feminine sexuality vs. masculine sexuality, but at times it felt gratuitous. The characters are fun and full of life. It's incredible to see a gay man and a WOC at the forefront of a best-picture-winning film doing most of the communicating.
Overall it is well-made and well-acted but poorly written (mostly with plot holes and vague lore). It's not egregiously bad, just not that interesting.
Kat and Ryley: 5/10
Both: [00:00:00] Hello,
Kat: and welcome to
Both: easy bake takes
Ryley: the podcast!
Kat: Where we read you the one star reviews of your favorite movies and more. My name's Kat
Ryley: and I'm Ryley.
Kat: Since we're doing the theme of creatures from the deep I went with the Shape of Water.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: Cause that is a, it's a creature from the deep kind of thing.
Ryley: Oh yeah. It's a creature feature.
Kat: This particular creature feature came out in 2017. It was rated R and it's classified as a romance fantasy movie that is two hours and three minutes long. At the 2018 academy awards this movie won best picture, best production design, best original score and Guillermo del Toro won best director and they also won the golden globe for best director and best original score. Um, some people disagree that this movie should have won best picture, but I think at [00:01:00] least the score deserved that and the production design, I think Guillermo del Toro did a good directing job.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: Here's a quick plot summary and then we'll do a plot breakdown. Elisa is a mute isolated woman who works as a cleaning lady in a hidden high security government laboratory in 1962, Baltimore. Her life changes forever when she discovers the lab's classified secret, a mysterious scaled creature from south America that lives in a water tank. As Elisa develops a unique bond with her new friend, she soon learns that it's fate and very survival lies in the hands of a hostile government agent and a Marine biologist. A little bit more detailed plot breakdown. Elisa Esposito is mute and communicates with sign language. She works at a secret government lab as a cleaner. Next door is her gay neighbor Giles, a middle-aged ad illustrator. And Elisa goes in to work for her night shift job where her friend and coworker Zelda is waiting. Colonel Richard Strickland brings a humanoid [00:02:00] amphibian from South America to the lab. Elisa begins to visit fish guy, which I will be calling him.
Ryley: Does he have another name?
Kat: No.
Ryley: No.
Kat: They don't really ever give him a name. Wikipedia called him amphibian man.
Ryley: Oh, that's too much.
Kat: Literally IMDB called him Fishman or something like that. So.
Ryley: Fishman.
Kat: Well, I'm gonna go with fish guy. Her and fish guy begin to form a bond. Strickland and general hoyt seek to exploit the fish for an advantage in the space race and Strickland persuades Hoyt to Vivesect it. Dr. Hoffstetler, a scientist who is secretly a Russian spy named Dimitri, pleads unsuccessfully to keep it alive so he can study it. He is also ordered by his Soviet handlers to euthanize it. Elisa finds out about this. Elisa persuades Giles to help her free fish guy and Hoffstetler finds out and he helps them. And Zelda is initially reluctant to help her, but she ends up helping them complete the release of fish guy. Elisa plans on releasing him in a nearby canal [00:03:00] that has access to the ocean. Strickland interrogates Elisa and Zelda, but learns nothing about where the fish guy is. Giles is watching fish guy at Elisa's apartment. Fish guy eats Giles' cat and then scratches him, but heals him and gives him a little bit more hair. And then Elisa and fish guy have sex in a flooded bathroom.
Ryley: Magical.
Kat: Hoyt gives Strickland 36 hours to recover fish guy or he's fired. And then Hoffstetler goes off to meet with his handlers and Strickland has been following him and Hoffstetler is shot by his handlers. He gets shot in the cheek and in the chest and he's dying and Strickland kills both of the handlers and realizes Hoffstetler is actually a Russian spy and he starts to torture him. And while he's dying, he starts out with fish hooking him through the wound in his cheek.
Ryley: Oh.
Kat: Is torturing him until he gives him information about fish guy and Hoffstetler gives him the information that Elisa and Zelda [00:04:00] were involved. Strickland goes to Zelda's house and threatens her until her husband rats her out. Zelda immediately calls Elisa and warns her. Strickland goes to Elisa's apartment, but Elisa, Giles, and fish guy have already gone to the can. They are saying their goodbyes when Strickland arrives and knocks out Giles and then shoots Elisa and fish guy. Giles then bonks Strickland on the head with a wooden plank and fish guy heals himself. And then he gets up and slashes Strickland's throat. And then Zelda and the police arrive and fish guy takes wounded Elisa into the water and heals her. And then he gives her gills and then they live happily ever after the end.
Ryley: Yes.
Kat: Okay, so this, this film was directed by Guillermo Del Toro. You might know him for Pan's Labyrinth, Hellboy. Was written by Guillermo do Toro and Vanessa Taylor. The musical score is by Alexandre Desplat, who I love. The cast is Sally Hawkins plays Elisa. Octavia Spencer plays Zelda. [00:05:00] Michael Shannon plays Richard Strickland. Doug Jones plays Fish guy, and he is like Hollywood's go-to monster, man.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: Actually playing Count Orlock in The Nosferatu remake.
Ryley: Oh, that sounds good.
Kat: And he was Billy in Hocus Pocus.
Ryley: Really?
Kat: Yeah, he's the zombie.
Ryley: That makes sense. Okay. Yeah. I remember reading about that. Okay.
Kat: And then Richard Jenkins plays Giles. And he's also the dad and stepbrothers.
Ryley: Yes, I yes. I know who I, yeah, I remember that.
Kat: And then Michael Stulberg plays Dr. Robert Hoffstetler slash Dimitri. Trivia. The background scenery for the dance scene that's between Elisa and the fish guy is copied from the Fred Astaire and ginger Rogers movie follow the fleet. Sally Hawkins who plays Elisa researched Charlie Chaplin, Laurel and Hardy, Buster Keaton and Audrey Hepburn for her part. And Del Toro even bought her a Blueray collection featuring the performers prior to filming, which I thought was cool.
Ryley: That is very cool.
Kat: The film was inspired by creature from the lack lagoon [00:06:00] Del Toro watched as a kid, but he always wanted Gillman and Kay Lawrence's characters to have a successful romance.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: Doug Jones wanted to portray a creature distinct from others in monster films. He practiced a variety of movements in a dance studio. After Del Toro told him to make the character quote "animalistic, but Royal and Regal" Jones decided to also portray the character as a Matador.
Ryley: Very interesting.
Kat: Then Octavia Spencer who played the role of Elisa's coworker, friend, interpreter Zelda found it funny that the people that Del Toro used to speak for the mute main character were people who represented very disenfranchised groups. So he had a gay man and a black woman. And then in an interview with indie wire about the film, Del Toro said the project was a healing movie for me, as it allowed him to explore and quote, "speak about trust otherness, sex, love, where we're going. These are not concerns that I had when I was nine or seven."
Ryley: Hmm.
Kat: And then Giles's was originally written for Sir Ian MacLean. [00:07:00]
Ryley: That would've been an interesting choice. Not saying it would be bad.
Kat: I would've loved to see him as like a closeted gay man in the sixties. I feel like, I feel like he plays very like put together characters.
Ryley: Yeah. Very serious. So it'd be really interesting to see him differently.
Kat: Yeah. Del Toro had been working on this film since 2011. And actually this film initially started out as him pitching it as a remake of creature from the black lagoon. But you know, it turned into.
Ryley: Its own story.
Kat: Mm-hmm. And then a goof that I saw and thought was funny. There were some problems with, um, Elisa flooding her bathroom, the technical reasons of why that wouldn't work. Unless she had stopped her toilet as well the level of water in her bathroom, would've never risen past the point of the toilet. Even if her bathroom is only 15 by 15 by 15, the amount of water would weigh approximately 200,000 pounds. Her apartment is also shown to [00:08:00] be above a theater with a one foot crawl space with wooden beams that has- that combined with the lack of steel supports would ensure that the entire bathroom would've dropped into the theater.
Ryley: And they would've died.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: God.
Kat: So that scene just wouldn't have worked.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: And then there were a couple plagiarism accusations with this movie.
Ryley: Ooh.
Kat: It was accused of plagiarizing am Lee with Elisa's character, Delicatesson with the underwater bathroom scene and the city of lost children, which are all films by French director, Jean Pierre Jeunet. And it was also accused of plagiarism of amphibian man, a 1962 Soviet film based on 1928, novel of the same by Alexander Belayev. And then in 2018, the estate of Paul Zindel initiated a lawsuit against Del Toro and associate producer, Daniel Krause for alleging plagiarism of Zindels 1969 work let me hear you whisper about a cleaning lady bonding with a dolphin and [00:09:00] attempting to rescue it from a secret research lab. Del Toro denied this claim saying he had never heard or read or seen that play. And none of his collaborators had either. And the plagiarism claims were found to be unfounded.
Ryley: I think with this movie, there's definitely stuff unique about it, enough to defend that is not plagiarized. But two, like it is, it's not the most original thing I've ever heard of.
Kat: No.
Ryley: The concept of trying to help something escape captivity. I mean, that's, uh, free Willy that's. Um.
Kat: Literally.
Ryley: Literally. That's free. Add free Willy to this. Because he might as well.
Kat: Yeah. I also, I remember people on, um, Twitter.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: When it came out, saying something along the lines of like, this is an inverted version of like beauty and the beast.
Ryley: Oh yeah.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: I, I was literally thinking that.
Kat: Yeah. What are your thoughts on this movie? Had you seen it? Did we see this together?
Ryley: No, we did not see it together, but I do remember seeing this in theaters, but it's, it's a [00:10:00] decent movie.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: Not something I will want to watch often. No. Not in a bad way. It's just like one of those movies where okay. You made it. Oh, it was pretty good. That was a movie.
Kat: Yes, indeed.
Ryley: Just, just put it nicely.
Kat: Did you have any like specific thoughts or things you pulled out?
Ryley: I liked the part when she just goes.
Kat: Oh, yes I love that part when she, uh, describes to Zelda what the Fishman's Wiener is like.
Ryley: It's really funny. it's really funny. It's yes. It's a visually well done movie.
Kat: It's beautiful. Yeah.
Ryley: It is beautiful.
Kat: Actually, let me pull up just real quick who the, who did the cinematography for this movie.
Ryley: Cause it is pretty, it's a pretty movie.
Kat: The cinematography was done by Dan Laustsen.
Ryley: Mm. Okay. I just don't know. If it's the most interesting movie out there, to be honest.
Kat: Yeah. Anything else that you found amusing about this movie? Or?
Ryley: I mean, I'm sure more thoughts will pop up later.
Kat: I can go through [00:11:00] mine if you
Ryley: Yeah go through yours. Yes. I wanna hear what you had to think.
Kat: I'm sure you'll resonate.
Ryley: Yes.
Kat: When I went to go see this in the theater. I remember after the, the bathroom scene two, like older women immediately left.
Ryley: Best thing that could happen in a movie when something weird happens. And then older people start to leave.
Kat: That happened when we saw a sausage party.
Ryley: Yes. Two women just wandered in late late into the movie and got up after the eggplant scene.
Kat: Let's see this cute cartoon.
Ryley: This is a cute little cartoon that we're gonna sneak into cuz they definitely, it wasn't like they were late. They definitely snuck into this.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: To see it, like they definitely got out of a movie and were like, let's just see what this ha- goes on in this. And they got up not long after.
Kat: I feel like they were trying to be like adventurous.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: So that's why they went in there. But.
Ryley: Could not handle it.
Kat: Anyway, I love Giles. I had to question myself a little bit. Why do I resonate with old gay men in movies the most?
Ryley: Well it's cause I think inside you're an old gay man. I [00:12:00] think in your heart, you are.
Kat: You know what? And I can live with that.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: I can live with that. And then not to be a prude.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: What does sex add to this movie? Because like, I know it's kind of like a masculinity versus femininity thing, but like fucking wasn't the only way to show that.
Ryley: It's definitely not.
Kat: I, I don't think it's useless. I just, I feel like it was used more than it should have been in this movie.
Ryley: Yeah. Cause you can make the argument that sex is empowering to some women.
Kat: Yeah, of course.
Ryley: If I had to guess that's what the movie was trying to show.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: But like, yeah, I can understand why it, this was a, it was weird.
Kat: I don't think it needed to be taken out necessarily. It just seemed excessive at some points.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: But I also wrote, it shows a whole lot of boobies.
Ryley: Mm.
Kat: I said, where's the equality. Show me a wiener.
Ryley: What you, okay, so you show a bunch of boobies but not?
Kat: Also, I wanna add that like 99% of the time, when you see, actually see a wiener in a movie,
Ryley: mm-hmm.
Kat: It's a fake Wiener.
Ryley: Really?
Kat: Women [00:13:00] have to show all their boobies, titties and ass, they get the prosthetic penis. Really?
Ryley: That's dumb or, you know, whatever there is it's just only for a split second. And you're like, what- was that it?
Kat: They, they gave Robert Downey Jr. A whole new chest in iron man.
Ryley: That's right. They did.
Kat: They can't give fake boobies?
Ryley: Well it's also like just like do the same thing for everyone, you know?
Kat: Yeah. But I also just wrote down there's one note that just says egg.
Ryley: Oh yeah. They, she likes boiled eggs.
Kat: Well, there's one part where she like, you know, she's like signing to him what egg is.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: It's just the caption. It's just like egg.
Ryley: Egg. Yeah, there you go.
Kat: And then Noah brought this up cuz he watched it with me yesterday. He said was no one paying attention to Elisa, just going in and out of that high secret security area?
Ryley: That's the thing about the movie that I would just kind of have to complain about a little bit, like you think an alarm would be set off when the door opens, but.
Kat: Literally.
Ryley: I guess not.
Kat: She brought a whole whole record player was playing music [00:14:00] out loud.
Ryley: She was in there for hours.
Kat: Every day.
Ryley: Every day.
Kat: The Russian spy thing seemed a little bit uni.
Ryley: Yeah, cuz like that never really came into play. Right?
Kat: Yeah. And I guess it's just like, so Strickland has something to do and so Hoffstettler has something to do. He could have just been a very dedicated scientist.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: And he was outside of him also being a Russian spy, you know?
Ryley: Yeah. It just seems like something added onto him.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: Like just what you said. He was a very dedicated spy, but also, or a dedicated scientist, but also Russian spy. It's just like.
Kat: Yeah. So was it necessary? I don't know.
Ryley: Probably not.
Kat: And then maybe I'm a bad friend, but I don't know if I'd help save the fish guy.
Ryley: Well, when it comes down to like, Hey, these government officials will definitely kill us if they catch us.
Kat: It's me or the fish guy, I'm picking me. I'm sorry.
Ryley: Like, that's cool that you're having a love affair with this fish dude.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: I don't care [00:15:00] enough about that. I'm not gonna risk my life for you to explore beastiality.
Kat: I'm leaving that in.
Ryley: It's just-sorry.
Kat: It's a good, that's a good way to put it.
Ryley: It's good way to put it.
Kat: I love you. I love you, Riley.
Ryley: Yes.
Kat: You're my best friend. I would never sneak into a government facility.
Ryley: Honestly. I'm I'm gonna be kind of judgmental too. I'm gonna be like, I think it's best that you get away from that thing. Cause.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: No.
Kat: Maybe we don't, you know?
Ryley: Maybe you shouldn't be doing that. Um.
Kat: Talk some sense into me.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: If I ever.
Ryley: I'm just gonna say, yeah, that's probably what I'd be doing. I'd be like, I think you need to talk to someone about that.
Kat: Yeah. Let's get you back into therapy.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: Um, okay. But do you have anything else you wanna add before we move on?
Ryley: Uh, no, not right now.
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Kat: Okay, so we'll move on to the critics. The first critical review I have is from media diversity and was written by Stan Clark in 2018, who gave this movie a C minus. When it came to the technical aspects, he found that it's a very profound analysis of loneliness and it succeeds the most. Found that the simplistic representation of the 1960s to be a turnoff, like he felt they didn't really go into that era enough for him. And then said that the oversexualization of female characters and hyper masculinization of straight men, and it also turns racial issues into a device that informs the [00:17:00] audience of the tensions of the area- era, without going into the complexities of those issues, but the movie does pass the Bechdel test. And if you don't know what the Bechdel test is, that's when a movie has to have two female characters that talk to each other about literally anything other than men.
Ryley: That is good.
Kat: It is good. I mean, it's really not hard to pass the Bechdel test to the point where it's like, we need a new test. Like, I feel like it needs.
Ryley: it needs to be expanded a little bit. But in a way, it, it's not that it's hard to pass, but there's so many movie where they.
Kat: That don't.
Ryley: It's just non-existent, they fail it.
Kat: The bar is on the ground and they failed.
Ryley: Mm-hmm mm-hmm.
Kat: Clark also praises the positive female relationship between Elisa and Zelda, but says that it is undercut by the fact that Elisa only can find validation from a male companion.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: And then says, quote, "ultimately, this strange mix falls short and represents a sad glass that is just half full. After all, Del Toro's portrayal of otherness does only half the job it's supposed [00:18:00] to, as he compromises integrity by hiring a safe," in quotes "actress and provides only surface level commentary on complex issues," end quote.
Ryley: I agree with a lot of that. Yeah. Like he, like they said brings up a lot of issues and no commentary for them.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: So, yeah, I totally agree.
Kat: And I'm glad I found that one cuz I, I didn't know how to put all of those into words, you know?
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: The next review I have is from flick chatter by Ruth Maramis in 2018, who gave it a 4.5 out of five. And says that Del Toro created a romance unlike any other, and then says that Elisa is the beating heart of the film and that Del Toro captured the love story beautifully. The film is emotional thrilling, funny, and suspenseful. Does have some disturbing and violent moments though, but the visuals are enthralling and so are those supporting characters. And the filmmakers created a character we could relate with despite his origins or how he looks. And then said something about the creature doesn't add up. How he's a [00:19:00] powerful being and can heal from being fatally shot. Yet he is powerless when chained up in the lab.
Ryley: Well.
Kat: But says, inevitably, these issues didn't take away from their enjoyment of the film. And ends the review with quote, "as a fan of classical music, I also adore Alexandre Desplat's ethereal score that adds so much to the film. It's a masterpiece bear revisiting time and time again. I'm glad I saw this on the big screen before years end. It's the last film I saw in 2017. What a way to end the year," end quote.
Ryley: I'm glad they liked it.
Kat: And like you said, it's, there's enjoyable things about the movie. It's just not a rewatch movie.
Ryley: There's a lot of. Especially, they just brought it up now, like the Fishman, what do you, what do you call 'em? They're not, um, goofs, but they're like, I guess just like?
Kat: Character flaw.
Ryley: Character flaws, or just like.
Kat: Continuity error.
Ryley: Continuity error, or like the, the Fishman being able to heal. And he's like super powerful and strong, but he can't break out of the chain.
Kat: Cuz like at the end, whenever he's weak. It's like, oh, [00:20:00] okay. Well he, he hasn't been in the proper environment, so that makes sense.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: But he's being shocked repeatedly and maybe he can only heal in water because he couldn't heal himself at the end until it started raining.
Ryley: Oh, well, that's something that needs to be clarified more then.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: If you're gonna put that kind of logic into the movie that kind of needs to. Told or explained or something like that.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: I don't know, I guess.
Kat: Expanded upon just a little, I don't know.
Ryley: Yeah. I, I would, I think I would just call it logical flaws.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: And usually I hate when people go, well, that's not logical would never happen. I usually hate people when they say that, but when there's just like little bitty.
Kat: You've already accepted the Fishman exists.
Ryley: Mm-hmm .
Kat: But you just want his powers to be consistent just a little bit.
Ryley: And just like also like with her coming in and out for hours at a time hanging out with him, that's like a lo that's not logical. That's not a thing that would, I don't think have it. So it's little stuff like that that can kind of eat away in a movie. In my opinion.
Kat: I agree. [00:21:00] The next review I have is from fan boys of the universe by Johnny Gayzmonic in 2017, who gave it a six out of 10. He calls the film, an unwieldy mix of Amelie, hidden figures and revenge of the creature that's not as effective or interesting as a mixture like that would sound. From a technical standpoint, there is very little wrong with the film. And quote, "Del Toro's masterful sense of framing and movement lends a quiet, confident grace to the visuals and his attention to detail is admirable," end quote. The film setting has kind of imitation of life look that may look amazing, but lacks true depth says that score is charming and unchallenging and establishes a sense of wonder and the opening, but starts fading quickly into itself and becomes generic. And then says that the only weak link in the cast is Michael Shannon, but not because of his acting, but because of his cartoonish and predictable character. Ends the review with quote, "it's difficult to call out what's wrong with the shape of water as a film, mainly because there's clearly a large [00:22:00] amount of talent both behind and in front of the camera. It almost feels mean-spirited to do so since Del Toro clearly has the best of intentions and is obviously passionate about the film itself. But dedication and raw talent can only go so far, and too often, the film is weighed down by its own sense of metaphoric wonder instead of being buoyed by it. It's a perplexing state of affairs and one that shouldn't exist. Given the elements, the film is composed of," end quote.
Ryley: People are really hating on Michael Shannon, Shannon's character. Not because of he is acting cuz I think Michael Shannon is a fantastic actor.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: I guess, I guess I can see what they're saying cuz he's like a, literally an evil government agent.
Kat: This is something I forgot to add in the trivia. Del Toro told Michael Shannon, and this was the reason he accepted the role that his character was someone who in the 1960s would've been the hero of the movie.
Ryley: Mm.
Kat: And like, he kind of acts as though everything he does is like, he's the hero he's here to save the day kind of person.
Ryley: That's really interesting. Ooh.
Kat: Yeah. [00:23:00]
Ryley: I see it. Like, I, I get it. I wouldn't say that's like a big issue for me though.
Kat: No.
Ryley: I, I didn't notice it as much as people are talking about it, but okay.
Kat: But do you agree that it feels kind of mean to critique this movie?
Ryley: Yeah. Cuz like I'm trying, cuz here's the thing. I don't have strong negative opinions about this movie and that's why I'm like, I just kind of, I don't like it, but it's just like I don't feel anything for this movie, really.
Kat: Yeah. It's.
Ryley: It, it, that, that's on my honest opinion. It's not that I wanna trash on this movie, but it's not like I wanna praise it. I really was like, yep. Okay.
Kat: That all happened.
Ryley: Yep. That all happened. that's funny. Yeah. it's not that it feels mean it's just like, I don't, I just don't have strong emotions about it, honestly, like, or just strong opinions to share.
Kat: Yeah. That's fair. This is the last critic review I have. It is from film companion and was written by [00:24:00] Anupama Chopra in 2018. And she says, quote, "on paper, it sounds preposterous. On screen it is poetry," end quote. And says that it's a celebration of marginalized, voiceless people and of fluidity. And that the visuals enhance the fairytale, feel of it, but rich emotions ground it and says that acting is superb, especially Sally Hawkins. And that Del Toro gives the camp classic creature from the black lagoon, a new spin with flares of wisdom. I do agree that Sally Hawkins does a really good job.
Ryley: I think everyone does a great job. Like the acting in this movie is great, no complaints. And then this movie technically like, like the technical technical wise, is perfect.
Kat: Mm-hmm. So are you ready to move on to the audience reviews?
Ryley: Yes.
Kat: So the first audience review I have is from IMDB. It is a 10 out of 10 and is titled "clever and beautiful" and was written in 2018. And they say, "a sweet [00:25:00] and beautiful fairytale for a modern world. So thoughtful and lovingly. Very clever., It's a shame so many people have lost the patience and understanding to really appreciate how great this movie actually is."
Ryley: If you like this movie, I'm, I'm not gonna tell you, I'm not gonna tear you to shreads about
Kat: yeah.
Ryley: Why you shouldn't like, that's fine.
Kat: Yeah. We'll let this next one out of 10 do that for us. Okay. So this.
Ryley: I love the transition from the best to the worst. it's always so funny and the titles.
Kat: I'm gonna preface this one with four out four people found this helpful one out of 10 titled "a truly horrible" film written April 2022. "I am shocked this was made by Guillermo Del Toro. What was he thinking? One, the CIA captures an animal, they say is the greatest discovery in all of human history and it needs to be protected and kept top secret. Yet the janitor is able to spend hours and hours each day with this animal. There are no guards, no cameras. And apparently she has complete access to this room. [00:26:00] Seriously? Two, the film clearly portrays the Fishman as more of a wild animal than a human, but the main character has sex with it anyway. Imagine a dolphin trainer at the zoo that is so lonely and depressed. She starts having sex with the dolphins. Pretty gross, right? That's pretty much what this movie is all about. Three, there is absolutely no subtlety or nuance in the characters at all the good ones, the bad ones. None of them. This movie is about as nuanced as a Disney channel film from the nineties."
Ryley: Oh my God. I'm wanting someone to go. Someone needs to call PETA.
Kat: Jail.
Ryley: Jail straight away. Um, yeah, they pretty, they nailed it on. Yeah, this is pretty accurate.
Kat: you know, you could argue that, like he has the capability to learn and communicate and interact in like a humanlike way.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: So do gorillas.
Ryley: Oh. It's true though. It's true. [00:27:00] Oh.
Kat: They're onto something with that one. It is.
Ryley: Yeah. Yeah. They are.
Kat: So this next one is a three star review from 2017 on Letterboxd. "That says, dude got out of the bath and went straight to the movies by himself soaking wet and naked. Gotta respect it."
Ryley: Oh my God.
Kat: Okay. This next one is a one out of 10 titled "OMG so awful" from IMDB written April 2018. "Perhaps the worst movie I've ever seen. The writing was awful, the idea was awful, the flow was awful. It was shot like a surreal farce with this candy cane music throughout that just made it even more unrealistic than it already was. If it wasn't bizarre enough to be about a cleaning lady that falls in love with the creature from the black lagoon, then it got even worse. At one point, she ends up dancing and singing with the creature in some kind of Broadway musical. What? Could never take any of it seriously and could never get into it not just because of the weird premise, but because of surreal overall production and [00:28:00] dialogue and goofy music. Awful."
Ryley: They're really like mad about the music in this one. I wanna.
Kat: I love when people go, what in the review.
Ryley: Yeah, they're going through the motions when they're writing this. I love it. Like they're furious. Like they're in the height of it.
Kat: It sounds like they were dictating it to a secretary.
Ryley: like they were reading it out loud for someone.
Kat: How does this sound? Okay. But the next one is from Letterboxd four stars 2017. And says, "that scene where Octavia Spencer was asking about his Dick was me the whole film."
Ryley: Yep.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: I mean, if we're gonna put it in the movie
Kat: It's a pressing matter.
Ryley: I, we, we wanna know.
Kat: Mm-hmm. The next one, one outta 10, no way this wins best movie IMDB, 2018 weirdest movie of the year. What happened to good movies like Forrest Gump? No, now we honor making love to see creature movies." [00:29:00]
Ryley: Again, just throws in the most random movie they can think of. Oh my God. I love it.
Kat: Good movies like forest Gump,
Ryley: Like Forrest Gump. It is a weird movie. So if you like weird movies, this is definitely one of them. So.
Kat: Yeah, it's definitely like art house.
Ryley: Oh yeah. Mm-hmm.
Kat: So this is a one and a half star review from 2017 from Letterboxd. And they say, "I have a lot of serious things to say about this vapid shallow look at me being all grown upsy and shouting all grown upsy stuff while still hammering home," my nine, "my fifties sci-fi pastiche fetish," quote, "and Manchild spawned fairytale in which love equals sex and violence equals sex and masculinity equals sex and femininity equals sex and basically everything is sex and nothing is real or relatable or even slightly remotely emotive but all I can come up with is: Free Willy the reboot."
Ryley: Wow. That's exactly what we were talking about earlier.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: I like how they put it, cause yeah, [00:30:00] now I, yeah, I get like sex being like, it really is like everything. Yeah. I, I, I. That's a good way to put it, honestly.
Kat: instead of everybody poops it's everybody fucks.
Ryley: Yeah. That's yeah. Honestly, that's like kind of like what that's, what this movie like really shows. So yeah, I, this is a good, that's a good way to say it. Yeah. Well put. Free Willy the Reboot. oh God.
Kat: Okay. So this is a one out of 10 titled "awful twaddle." Is that a bad word? Am I?
Ryley: In Britain? Is this a British review?
Kat: I I'm looking up what twaddle means real quick.
Ryley: Yeah, I wanna just in case.
Kat: It's another word that means trivial or foolish.
Ryley: I've never heard that word in my life.
Kat: So twaddle another word for foolish. If anyone's looking for their vocabulary word of the day, twaddle. But this is from IMDB written in 2018. "Can't believe this got nominated for anything. What a terrible film. Basically the Aquaman [00:31:00] from Hellboy idea totally stolen, even went as far as eating boiled eggs, falls in love with a mute woman. Nothing much else happens except some form of fish bestiality. Is that a thing? Then she grows gills and they live happily ever after it looked like it was going to be really interesting. It was far from it." I don't know if this person knows that Guillermo Del Toro made Hellboy.
Ryley: It sounds like. Yeah, but now that they say it, like now I'm remembering that character and they're a lot alike.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: Does that character in Hellboy eat eggs?
Kat: I think so. Yeah.
Ryley: Oh my God. Then it might be the same character. Oh my God. Like a little homage to that character, well not even a little.
Kat: It's basically a movie about it.
Ryley: Holy crap.
Kat: Is shape of water, a backstory to hell boy, a prequel to hell boy? No. It is not. So he really was just recycling material, I guess.
Ryley: I didn't, I didn't notice. I forgot. I forgot about that character until someone mentioned it.
Kat: This next one's from Letterboxd [00:32:00] 2017 2 stars. "Took an immediate dislike to this movie that I could never shake off. I don't doubt Del Toro's reverence for the power of fairy tales, but this struck me as an awkward marriage of fairytale and realism. Maybe without the explicit, once upon a time opening narration and a bit more emphasis on making the world of this lab and the lives of these characters more believably authentic it could have worked as a parable? Then again, it's worked just fine for many smart, thoughtful people. So maybe just not my thing."
Ryley: That's how I feel about this movie. Like if there's something to get about this movie, I think it just kind of passed over me and I'm okay with that.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: If other people like it. Okay.
Kat: I, I do like in reviews where people could acknowledge that a movie's not for them, cuz I, I feel that way with some movies where I'm just like you know, I'm not gonna shit on this movie cuz I didn't like it. It just.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: It wasn't for me and this is why.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: This next one is a one out of 10 titled "garbage, garbage and more garbage" from IMDB from 2018. [00:33:00] "In plain language since you denied my previous remarks, which by the way did not violate terms of service, but somehow your staff, I would love to debate the issue with them but they hide behind the curtain, believed I did. And by the way, I never got a notice about acceptance or denial, which is a violation of my terms of service. Regardless, this movie is a disgrace. It is the worst movie since shallow hal and plan nine from outer space."
Ryley: I wanna know.
Kat: What their first review was?
Ryley: Yes. I wanna, I wanna read it so I can debate whether it was okay to tear down or not. Oh my God.
Kat: They probably wrote like Phish fucking or something.
Ryley: Yeah. Something like that.
Kat: And then IMDB was like, uh uh.
Ryley: I've read worse on IMDB though.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: We both have.
Kat: Just half the review is like, fuck IMDB.
Ryley: I wanna know what they wrote because you, you have to get like reported, right?
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: Or does, or does I, or can IMdB?
Kat: The system can flag it initially if like- they probably used explicit [00:34:00] language.
Ryley: Okay.
Kat: Or maybe someone reported it and then they flagged it. I don't know.
Ryley: Okay.
Kat: Okay. This is the last review I have. It is a 10 outta 10 from IMDB titled "enjoyable" from 2018. "I find the movie in enjoyable. It has everything: suspense, romance fantasy with a vintage touch, great directing by Del Toro as usual and Sally Hawkins and Octavia Spencer made an excellent performance. And what can I say of Michael Shannon, just amazing and convincing. The monster is a mix of horror, beauty, miracle, etc."
Ryley: There you go. It has everything. I love it when these people list stuff like that.
Kat: Do you have anything you wanna say before we give our rating of this movie?
Ryley: No, I feel like I've, I've said everything. Do you have anything to say?
Kat: It's just another case of like teenage Kat thought it was pretty.
Ryley: Mm.
Kat: And not teenage Kat thinks it needs more than that.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: But yeah. What would you give it out of 10?
Ryley: My gut [00:35:00] is saying five outta 10.
Kat: I was thinking the same thing.
Ryley: We, we do that often.
Kat: It's cuz we're best friends.
Ryley: Exactly. But it's like also one of those things where like this movie, I don't think this is a garbage movie.
Kat: No.
Ryley: But I don't think it's the best thing in the world.
Kat: Yeah. Like it's middle of the road.
Ryley: Middle of the road.
Kat: Well made w ell, acted poorly written.
Ryley: I wanna say I don't like, but it's like, I don't.
Kat: That is what five outta 10 means to us right now.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: Anything else?
Ryley: Nope, that was it.
Kat: So if you wanna reach out to us, give us any comments, concerns, complaints, movie suggestions, you can DM us at easy bake takes on our Instagram. We also sometimes post clips of our episodes on TikTok also at easy bake takes. We also post transcripts of our episodes. If you ever have any, if you're ever, like, what are they saying? We have a transcript on our website. If there's, if anything needs to be cleared up.
Ryley: It's fair.
Kat: Our website is easy bake takes podcast.com. And thank you so [00:36:00] much for listening. This has been easy bake takes. My name's Kat
Ryley: And I'm Ryley.
Kat: Easy watching out there.
Ryley: Bye.
Kat: Bye.