Hometown Blockbuster (Orphan Movie Review)
Week 1 of our Halloween Horror Movie Marathon has begun! Starting with the 2009 film Orphan.
Review Overview: Isabelle Fuhrman does a fantastic job in this movie. She's only 10 and is keeping up with Farmiga and Sarsgaard.
The best viewing experience of this movie is the first time you watch it, especially if you don't know how it ends. It builds suspense well, and the twist makes rewatching the movie more exciting. Although cheesy, it is scary and entertaining.
The only thing truly wrong with it is the moral grey area that it exists in when it comes to having a child actress act in the scene toward the end with the dad. It gives the same feeling as Natalie Portman in Leon the Professional or Jodie Foster in Taxi Driver. It just doesn't feel okay.
Kat: 4/10
Ryley: 4/10
Both: [00:00:00] Hello
Kat: and welcome to
Both: Easy Bake Takes!
Ryley: The podcast!
Kat: Where we read you one star reviews of your favorite movies and more. My name's Kat.
Ryley: And I'm Ryley.
Kat: And we are starting our horror movie marathon this week with Orphan, which came out in 2009 and is two hours and three minutes long. This is a horror thriller. It is rated R, and the premise of Orphan is: Kate and John Coleman's marriage is strained after the stillbirth of their third child, Jessica. The loss is particularly hard on Kate, who is a recovering alcoholic. The couple adopts a nine year old Russian girl, Esther from a local orphanage. Their five year old daughter, Max, who is deaf, embraces Esther, but their 12 year old son, Daniel is less welcoming. One night, Kate and John begin having sex, I'll add for the first time in a very long time, but are [00:01:00] interrupted by Esther. Kate becomes suspicious when Esther expresses far more knowledge of sex than a child of her age should. Esther begins to exhibit hostile behavior in front of Max and Daniel, such as killing an injured pigeon and badly injuring a classmate who was bullying her. Sister Abigail, the head of the orphanage visits the Coleman household, warning the couple that tragic events and incidents seem to occur around Esther, including the house fire that killed her last family. When Sister Abigail leaves, Esther uses Max to cause her to crash her car, and then Esther bludgeons Sister Abigail to death with a hammer. Esther then forces Max to help her move the body and hide the evidence in Daniel's treehouse. Daniel witnesses them at the treehouse and later that night she interrogates him about what he saw, threatening to castrate him if he tells his parents. As Kate becomes increasingly suspicious of Esther un- Esther's unusual behavior, John believes she's paranoid and tells Esther to do something nice for Kate. Esther takes the flowers from Jessica's grave and gives them to Kate. Kate is horrified and grabs Esther's arm in distress and asserts [00:02:00] that she did it on purpose. So Esther breaks her own arm and blames it on Kate to cause further strife between Kate and John. The next day, Esther releases the parking break on Kate's car with Max inside, causing the car to roll into traffic. Esther also points out that she found wine in the kitchen causing John and Kate's therapist to suggest that Kate go to rehab with John threatening to take the kids and leave if she refuses. Kate discovers Esther came from a mental hospital in Estonia, not an orphanage. Daniel learns of Sister Abigail's death from max and searches the treehouse. Esther sets it on fire in an attempt to kill him, but is thwarted by Max. Daniel is seriously injured and while he is in the ICU Esther tries to smother him with a pillow, but the doctors revive him. Kate slaps Esther before she is restrained and sedated. That night, Esther dresses provocatively in attempts to seduce John, who threatens to send her back to the orphanage after realizing Kate was right. At the hospital, Kate is contacted by Dr. Varava of the Saarne Institute and learns Esther is actually a 33 year old woman named Leena. She has [00:03:00] hypopituitarism, a rare hormone disorder that stunts her physical growth and causes proportional dwarfism and she has spent most of her life posing as a little girl. Leena is violent and has murdered at least seven people, including her last family. After her failed attempt at seducing John, Leena removes the ribbons she wore around her neck and wrists to hide scars caused by restraints in the hospital. She removes her disguise and stabs John to death. Kate rushes home, and Leena attempts to shoot her and wounds her arm. Leena opens fire on Max and Kate breaks through the greenhouse roof and knocks Leena unconscious. Kate and Max flee as the police arrive, but Leena attacks Kate near the frozen pond, hurling them onto the ice. Max shatters the ice in an attempt to shoot Lena and sends Kate and Lena underwater. Kate climbs out with Lena clinging to her legs. Leena reverts to her Esther persona, begging Kate not to let her drown with a knife hidden behind her back. Kate angrily retorts that she is not Leena's mommy and kicks her in the face, breaking her neck. Leena's body sinks into the dark pond as Kate and Max are met by the police. The end.
Ryley: One of the most satisfying [00:04:00] deaths of like a villain, I would say.
Kat: Very much so.
Ryley: Cause by that time I'm we're done with Esther's shit, you know?
Kat: Yeah. This movie was directed by Jaume Colett-Serra. The story was by Alex Mace. The screenplay was by David Leslie Johnson-McGoldrick, who also wrote Conjuring the Devil Made Me Do It, which is very bad, in my opinion.
Ryley: Oh.
Kat: It's about the first criminal case to use the defense of possession. You know, someone committed a murder cause they were possessed by the devil, not because they committed the murder themselves.
Ryley: Oh.
Kat: So it's a new version of like the insanity plea.
Ryley: Is that real? Like you can plea?
Kat: That's an actual case that happened.
Ryley: Okay. That's- Okay.
Kat: It's really hard to do a possession plea.
Ryley: Well, I'm not sure it works, but could you, I guess you could.
Kat: It's been tried.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: The cast is Isabelle Fuhrman as Esther, Vera Farmiga as Kate, Peter Sarsgaard as John, CCH Pounder as Sister Abigail, Jimmy Bennett as Daniel, Margo Martindale as Dr. [00:05:00] Browning and Ariana Engineer as Max. The budget for this movie was 20 million and it made 78.8 at the box office.
Ryley: Nice.
Kat: Isabelle Fuhrman was only 10 years old during the filming of the movie. Isabelle Furman, as a 10 year old, studied the performances of Glenn Close and Dangerous Liaisons and Anthony Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs to prepare for her role.
Ryley: That's funny.
Kat: It is. Just imagining her practicing as Hannibal Lector.
Ryley: This 10 year old.
Kat: For her to even be like using them as a reference for her character. It's no wonder they cast her.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: She must have been like a diamond to find within like all of these children.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: Amazing. Amazing.
Ryley: And she's creepy.
Kat: She is. She's good at it.
Ryley: She's really good at it.
Kat: And the poster is actually one side of Fuhrman's face mirrored to the other. That's why it looks so unsettling, because it's a perfect mirror of her face.
Ryley: Oh it's- okay. That's interesting. Oh, okay.
Kat: And then Vera Formiga is actually a skilled pianist in real life, and she was really upset when she saw that the scene of her composing the suite for Max and Jessica was cut short. [00:06:00] And then the piano that she's playing on is a Steinway piano, which can go upwards of $70,000.
Ryley: Oh, wow.
Kat: It's a nice fucking piano that they're playing on.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: And then in early drafts of the script, instead of singing the Glory of Love, she's supposed to sing Que Sera, Sera by Doris Day. The one that's in the beginning of Heather's.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: And then the line, I'm Not Your fucking mommy was copied from the Ring 2.
Ryley: Oh. Okay.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: I don't think I've ever saw that, but that's interesting.
Kat: I only saw the first ring.
Ryley: I didn't even know there was a second, to be honest.
Kat: So this movie is said to be inspired by the case of Barbora Skrlova.
This is not a True Crime podcast, so I will not be giving you heavily researched detail on this case but if anyone wants more detail on this, I don't think you want it. It's pretty gruesome. So if you want to know more, a medium.com article by Nikki Young. And then the other thing that I had true crime related after the movie was released, a similar case referenced the movie itself as saying that it happened to them. It was the case of Natalia Grace, six year old Ukrainian child who was adopted by an American family and then subsequently [00:07:00] put back into the adoption system and adopted by the Barnett family. She had dwarfism that caused her to be in a wheelchair. The parents, mostly the mom was convinced that she was an adult trying to scam them and said that it was like the movie in their house. Like things that happened in the movie was exactly what happened to them. And so they put this supposed child up in an apartment by herself after they got her like birth certificate changed to say she was 22.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: This one I'm not gonna be speculating on at all. The dad had a hearing last week or a week or so ago, and the mom's court case is in October, and so we won't know how that ends up, but Natalia has not been able to reverse the changes to her birth certificate.
Ryley: But even though she- is she still a child?
Kat: Her Ukrainian birth certificate said that she is a child. I think by now she might be an adult. So it's, it's a lot of speculation with that one, but it just seems-.
Ryley: Seems blurry.
Kat: But that's all the trivia I have.
Ryley: That was some hardcore trivia. I don't think we've had trivia like that before.
Kat: No, and I had never heard of the Barbora Skrlova one. I, [00:08:00] I had no idea it inspired the movie and it is so much worse than anything that happens in the movie.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: Back to the movie. What were your thoughts watching it this time? Had you seen it in theaters when it came out?
Ryley: No, I hadn't seen the, the first time I ever saw it was, it was the, one of the first movies you ever showed me in our friendship.
Kat: Oh my God. Is it really?
Ryley: I'm not even kidding. It- It, it might be the first. You've ever like,
Kat: Oh my God.
Ryley: Went sit down we're watching this, and we watched it in me and my sister's room back in our old apartment.
Kat: Oh, okay. I do remember, I do remember this, your two twin beds, We were just like, one of us was sitting in the computer chair.
Ryley: Yeah. One of us was sitting there and there was like a few other people in there.
Kat: But yeah, I I do remember that. I do remember that.
Ryley: That I'm pretty sure that's one of the first movies.
Kat: It's like that and like perfect sisters.
Ryley: Yeah. That so that's my first memory of this movie all those years ago.
Kat: Aww.
Ryley: And I wrote notes as I was watching it.
Kat: Okay. Let's hear 'em.
Ryley: This movie makes me grossed out to be pregnant and to give birth.
Kat: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ryley: This- well, The first scene is so horrible.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: [00:09:00] And such a nightmare. Like, I, I felt queasy after.
Kat: Oh yeah. It's really, uh, intense.
Ryley: Yeah. Well, I know it's a still birth scene, but still,
Kat: Well, it's like, it's, it's a literal nightmare she's having.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: I skip over that scene most times. I like, watch this movie.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: because it's just too much.
Ryley: It's a lot.
Kat: And like, I understand that's a reality for some people, but like, I can't.
Ryley: Mm-hmm. I hate the husband. I hate the husband. I hate the husband. I hate the husband. . I really do hate, hate him.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: He's making jokes about orphans in an orphanage, so right there should tell you how classy he is.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: He's the reason why they bring her home in the first place.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: He's the one that has some wander upstairs by himself.
Kat: In an orphanage.
Ryley: In, in all girls orphanage. Really?
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: But the actor, he's married to Maggie Gyllenhaal.
Kat: He's a good actor.
Ryley: He is. Is he of the Skarsgaard family or do they just have a similar last name?
Kat: They are Skarsgaard. He is Sarsgaard.
Ryley: Okay. The character, the girl, she keeps firing herself in the most lavish houses.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: Cause if you've see an orphan first kill, you should see that house that [00:10:00] she ends up in.
Kat: Oh yeah. Well, I think like people is, at least in this, the first one.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: People who can afford to adopt a child, they're gonna have a nice house.
Ryley: Yeah, that's true.
Kat: It's an expensive process.
Ryley: Yeah, definitely. Why would you allow your stupid son to invite his friends over when you're literally welcoming your new adoptive daughter home?
Kat: Yeah. I don't think they're great parents.
Ryley: Oh, no, they're terrible parents. They're really bad. The way he speaks to Esther, and I know Esther's evil, I understand that, but the way he speaks to her before we even get to know what she's capable of.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: And they're just like, Stop. Stop. Daniel. Daniel.
Kat: You'll be nice to her, Daniel.
Ryley: Stop. All right, we're gonna lock that. Say one more word, we're gonna lock that. Say one more word. Okay. Three more chances. I'm gonna give you three more chances, that's how it felt. I did not like them.
Kat: Yeah, that's fair.
Ryley: I wrote big surprise the mother-in-law is a raging bitch.
Kat: Her husband should have been like, Mom, shut the fuck up. But like he doesn't, He seems [00:11:00] like the kind of person that's just like-
Ryley: Oh, that's mom.
Kat: Oh, you, you ladies and your bickering.
Ryley: Exactly. Like I get the point like, yeah, the mom was irresponsible that way, but she was grieving.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: What she went through, I understand. I'm sorry. Someone else should have been watching the kids.
Kat: Literally like where was?
Ryley: He was home. He's just as-
Kat: He was off cheating on her.
Ryley: Exactly. Well, apparently like in the story, the dad saves the little girl from the pond because the mom was passed out drunk, so he was home.
Kat: It was probably like he had to rush home or something. Cause like she wasn't answering her phone or something.
Ryley: Oh okay. The son shooting the pigeon with a paintball gun and then crying about it. That happened to my dad, but with a BB gun and a crow and to like, to this day, he feels like really, really awful about it.
Kat: Aww.
Ryley: Like he cried. It was awful.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: He did, like the son say, he's like, I did think it would hurt him. Like the same thing happened.
Kat: Yeah, I understand that kid logic of like, well, when I shoot my friends with it, it doesn't almost kill them.
Ryley: It doesn't do anything to them.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: And he is a [00:12:00] child.
Kat: It's the way you learn not to do that.
Ryley: Exactly. It's good that it happened and they had that reaction of like, I feel terrible now.
Kat: And wasn't like-
Ryley: Yeah, it wasn't Esther going you know, like,
Kat: Just kill it.
Ryley: Just do it.
Kat: I mean, her logic is correct.
Ryley: Put it out of its misery. Of course.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: But she's like, too interested.
Kat: She's too eager to do it.
Ryley: She's too eager about it.
Kat: Let me do it. Let me do it.
Ryley: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Oh, he just, That husband just gaslights her throughout the whole movie.
Kat: Mm.
Ryley: And anytime she wants to bring up something he's doing, he's all like What about you? She brings up about the cheating thing and he's all like, I've made mistakes, but so have you and all that. And it's just like, that doesn't, that doesn't. What has she done? Well, but anyway, not cheating wise.
Kat: Yeah. Yeah. It's difficult to sympathize with him, especially considering like he cheated, didn't tell her for a long time.
Mm-hmm.
and then like it was-.
Ryley: Is not sorry about it.
Kat: Not, sorry. It-
Ryley: Is still flirting and she brought it up and he immediately turned it back on her. Acted like he's a victim.
Kat: Mm-hmm. And it's like she was having a [00:13:00] miscarriage at that time and like, Oh, you should be over it by now kind of mentality. It's like-
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: Every reaction that she had, Yes. I'm sure it would be more ideal if she was just a little bit safer to herself.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: Maybe not even for the sake of her, but for like the kids, I get it.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: But like, it's not outlandish that she's reacting that way to any of it.
Ryley: No.
Kat: But that's like my least favorite horror film trope. And it happens in like all of them. The husband just being like, You're being crazy.
Ryley: Exactly. Especially in horror movies, tropes. Cuz it's always the woman ha- who's noticing all the weird shit. And the husband always like, passes, Oh, you're, you're being crazy.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: And like with this movie, especially having the therapist on the dad's side.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: Because she's like, she doesn't even see how Esther is manipulating her.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: That's how you know you're a shitty therapist when you can't recognize someone manipulating you.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: You know?
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: You should be able to like catch that.
Kat: Oh, yeah.
Ryley: And like therapists even says like, Well, she's shy, reserved, and we don't know a lot about her. Why are you taking her side then?
Kat: [00:14:00] Yeah.
Ryley: We should get to know her.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: And then we can start seeing where they're coming from.
Kat: Exactly.
Ryley: Yeah. And I literally wrote down, everyone's making this mom sound crazy. I literally wrote down least favorite horror trope. Yeah. I, I don't like it. It's so frustrating.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: At this point, it's overdone.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: The mom says in the movie, to the hospital, Why does everyone get the benefit of the doubt from you except for me? It's because he doesn't respect you.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: Doesn't respect your opinion. It's really unfortunate.
Kat: He doesn't respect you and he doesn't trust you to like be better.
Ryley: They were broken long before Esther came.
Kat: Mm-hmm. like in the beginning, the thing that's like bothered me outside of any of the other stuff is like literally like her body went through so much.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: Mentally she went through so much and he's like, Oh, you don't have sex. I'm mad at you now.
Ryley: It's frustrating.
Kat: It's very frustrating.
Ryley: It's manipulative.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: There's a part of the movie where the mom's like screaming at the therapist like, I want her around the house. I don't want her here. I don't want them around the children. They brush it off. I'm sorry. [00:15:00] If a parent just adopted a child and they come back a few weeks later went, and went I want this child out. I don't want this child anymore. For the safety of that child alone, wouldn't you wanna take them out? Cuz why would you want to leave that child with someone who doesn't want to care for that child anymore? That should have happened immediately.
Kat: Yeah, it, it's not necessarily admitting anything either way. It's like, just prioritize the safety of this child and get the child outta the house.
Ryley: Think about it. You know, like immediately someone should have been like, okay, she's- we'll take her away. Get her outta there. We'll, we'll figure everything out later.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: That's one of those things in the movie where I'm like, that should have been taken more seriously.
Kat: For sure.
Ryley: She has the most extreme reaction after seeing her husband die, and I was happy. I'm glad he died in this movie. He's awful. He was horrible.
Kat: Yeah, that's fair. There's a certain point where it's like, at least like acknowledged that something's happening.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: The only thing he really acknowledges is like her saying, Fuck.
Ryley: Well he even brushes that off. He doesn't even give a shit.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: So irritating, and literally in your description, [00:16:00] when read the plot, he's like, it's only till the end when he realizes, when Esthers like hitting on him, that he realizes something's wrong.
Kat: When it's starting to affect him.
Ryley: Exactly. Because he's the only one in the house interacting.
Kat: That's how it is in horror movies too. It's like the husband's like, No, no, that's not happening. What? That's, You're being crazy. And then it happens to them or they witness something.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: And then all of a sudden it's like, okay, we need to go.
Ryley: Yeah. And then by that time it's too late.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: It's so irritating.
Kat: And I feel like that's why a lot of women like horror because that is, very big fear and reality for a lot of women. Just having any of their input discounted in any regard to anything and especially in a safety situations where it's men don't see what women see because we've experienced a lot of shit like this.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: or like just in the same realm of any of it safety wise. And I feel like that's why it resonates. It's kind of similar to how like true crime resonates cuz it's, it affects women more.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: this inherent like grabbing onto like, I've [00:17:00] seen this before, I've dealt with this before. Like I know what this feeling is. I know that I've been in a situation similar and I wanna arm myself for the future. Like, I understand why women like horror so much.
Ryley: Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Exactly. No, exactly. I totally understand.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: It's so true. That was my last comment. I was just glad the husband died.
Kat: Okay.
Ryley: I don't understand why they, Okay. She picks up her kid. The police are coming. Why did they go out to the front?
Kat: I don't know.
Ryley: Why do they go out to the dark woods?
Kat: Yeah, let's go stand on the ice pond and wait for the police here.
Ryley: Yeah, let's go stand near the ice pond.
Kat: Yeah. I don't.
Ryley: Cause that's a good place to stay. We, as from history has told us that's a good place to be.
Kat: Yeah. In your life specifically, you've had a great run with standing on the ice.
Ryley: Ice has always been your friend.
Kat: Especially with your little kid that almost died on that ice.
Ryley: Yeah, exactly.
Kat: But yeah, so for me, um, I don't have a lot of notes cuz I think you, you mentioned a lot of the things that like bugged me. Like it was mainly just like the gas lighting and the like shitty husband ness of it. But something that I [00:18:00] never thought of, I don't know why I never thought of this before, but comes up in the critic things, is Isabelle Furman's doing a great job, This movie's really good, but the fact that they had a 10 year old girl doing a lot of this and like acting out, especially like the last scene with the dad, it feels a little icky.
Ryley: Yeah, definitely.
Kat: So like, I didn't really think of that before, but now thinking of that I under like, I understand like that is, that is kind of weird and gross.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: It kind of reminds me of Leon the Professional, like Natalie Portman in that, where it's like, there's a lot of things where you just think about the fact that she's literally a child having to act these things out.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: And like Jodi Foster, taxi driver.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: I feel like in a few years Isabelle Fuhrman's gonna come out with something about this, but the fact that she was willing to go back,
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: And do the prequel, I think says enough for how many years it's been and.
Ryley: Exactly.
Kat: I did get compared to her a lot in middle school, pre puberty Kat, I will say did look like her.
Ryley: Yeah. I, I see it.
Kat: My, when my eyebrows had less structure, but [00:19:00] now I don't think as much I, I don't think I look like her as much. Just similar type of face, I guess.
Ryley: I think really the only comparison is like back in middle school you had, you had black, black hair and freckles.
Kat: Dark eyebrows.
Ryley: Right.
Kat: I'm not nearly as pale as her, but yeah. So I used to get compared to her. That's why I feel like I have a little bit of an attachment to this movie, just from like-
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: literally just people saying that in middle school.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: I didn't take it as an insult cuz she was in Hunger Games, so.
Ryley: That's right. She was, wasn't she.
Kat: She was in Catching Fire. No, no, no.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: Hunger Games.
Ryley: Is it the first one?
Kat: I think she's in one of them.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: She's in the games.
Ryley: She's in the games.
Kat: But yeah, so I, I think honestly, just from a standpoint of child acting Isabelle Fuhrman is amazing in this movie.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: The other kid actors too, like they were pretty good. Max was good.
Ryley: Yeah. They were decent. Mm-hmm.
Kat: They were pretty good.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: Yeah. I remember watching this movie in theaters I think either that or it was Red Box, I don't. Remember, but I do remember watching it around the time it came out.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: So I was like eight. But my family loves horror [00:20:00] movies or at least my mom does. So she would take me and see them.
Ryley: Oh nice.
Kat: I just remember it coming out at the same time as the Nicholas Cage movie the Knowing and there's a flashback,
Ryley: I think I-
Kat: with a girl writing all the numbers of the years where sh Bad stuff's gonna happen.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: and she looks exactly like the character Orphan.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: And so I just connect those two movies together in my head.
Ryley: I hate that movie. The Knowing.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: It's so bad.
Kat: So bad. It scared the shit outta Serena. And I put like a rock under her pillow because of that movie to scare her. Cuz you know, they wake up and they have those pebbles under their pillow.
Ryley: This is so fucking funny.
Kat: I connect those movies together in my brain.
Ryley: It's just such a dark movie for like all the way through.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: It's just depressing.
Kat: Yeah, I don't have, I don't have anything else for right now. Let's move on to the critics. The first review I have is from Big Picture, Big Sound from 2009, written by Lora Grady who gave this movie a two out of four, and starts with quote, "regarding orphan, an often histrionic, quasi-gothic entry in the long line of evil child movies, there is [00:21:00] good news and bad news. The good news is that if you plunk down $12 for this one, you're going to see two movies for the price of one. The bad news is that only one of those is worth seeing, and it's not the one being advertised on the movie posters." End quote. They said that this movie has an identity crisis and it's not quite a full blown horror, but it's not really a thriller. And it has the framework of a really compelling drama. You know, a marriage that's cracking under the weight of a miscarriage, alcoholism, cheating. And then says, quote, "however, that tale, which by itself could have made for a solid movie, is quickly overwhelmed by the Grand Guignol elements of the primary storyline. It's one we've seen before for the most part, in such predecessors as the Omen evil child, infiltrates happy family, and destroys it from within," end quote. And you'll see a lot in the credit reviews comparison to like the Omen and stuff like that. A lot of backstory to balance, but Sarsgaard and Farmiga are pros and their chemistry is welcoming. Their exchanges feel genuine and lend depth to their characters and relationships. And I think they, they both did a [00:22:00] good job. I think the whole family is good.
Ryley: The acting in this movie is pretty good.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: I, I don't have any complaints about it.
Kat: The drama within the family could have been a great movie on its own.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: The uneven tone shows the identity crisis of the plot. Beautiful set pieces juxtaposed with traumatic events. But that's like a filmmaking device, you know, to juxtapose something horrific in front of something beautiful.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: I don't really get that as a critique or saying that it has an identity crisis by saying that personally.
Ryley: Well, like what you just said, like it has an identity crisis with being like a horror or thriller. I'm like, you can range.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: How much you want your movie to represent one genre or the other.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: I would call it more of a thriller.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: or maybe even psychological thriller, cuz it does mess with your head a lot.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: I don't think it has an identity crisis. I think it plays out actually kind of perfectly.
Kat: I think it knows what it is. Yeah.
Ryley: Yeah. It knows what it is. And it plays out perfectly with, Sorry, just how the, the plot goes.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: And the twist at the end.
Kat: And I think the tone [00:23:00] lends to like, the fact that there is something being hidden.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: Like of course it's gonna be uneven.
Ryley: Yeah. The whole time you're like, what is wrong with her? What's going on with her?
Kat: And only at one point only you're seeing what she's doing.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: The movie is built like it's supposed to be.
Ryley: I don't really agree with their points.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: About why, why they think the movie isn't good.
Kat: Yeah, but they end this review with quote, "It must be noted however that this movie is entertaining. Also of note is Isabelle Fuhrman's performance as Esther. She is a preternaturally, pretty young actress with a compelling air of stillness and flare for finding the menace and madness in her character without overplaying. She gives a surprisingly disciplined performance in a role that could have been a disaster, and she holds her own in scenes with Ms. Farmiga and Mr. Sarsgaard. She's a performer to watch, and with luck, her future roles will be in productions with a little more consistency, now that would really be something to write home about," end quote.
Ryley: I agree. She's very good in this movie, and this movie is very entertaining.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: Absolutely.
Kat: It must have been [00:24:00] fun for the adult actors to work with her. It sounds like she just was really professional, you know?
Ryley: Yeah. Well, sorry like she, uh, she was watching silence of the Lambs to look up.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: It's so funny cuz like she's just mature for her age, I guess.
Kat: Yeah. But next we have a review from the independent critic by Richard Propes. Two and a half, out of four or a B minus. Richard says that Fuhrman is so convincing that Esther, that he speculates she will have a hard time acting as a normal, happy, healthy character in the future.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: Orphan is a moral dilemma, and quote, The dilemma is, of course, that Esther is so relentlessly brutal in her wrath that it could easily be labeled as morally reprehensible to present a child in such a light, as well as to have an actual child actor, 11 year old Fuhrman, portray such a child," end quote. So that's kind of where I got that.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: Cue of like, Oh shit, this is like an actual child having to act these things out.
Ryley: Exactly. An actual child playing a child [00:25:00] pretending to be, or pretending an adult, trying to pretend to be a child, it's very funny in that way.
Kat: Played by an actual child.
Ryley: Yeah. I do understand the concern and the, um, oh shoot.
Kat: The ickiness?
Ryley: Yes, the, but there's a, there's a more, uh, official word for it. Uh, the, uh, ethics of it.
Kat: Yeah. That, that's.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: There you go. Yeah.
Ryley: Yeah. The ethics of that, all that.
Kat: It is ethically gray to do. Um, she, she's never, at least in like, the sense of the provocativeness of the character, she never does anything.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: But she like acts it out in a way that it's like, is this ethically okay for a child actor to be doing this.
Ryley: Right. Mm-hmm.
Kat: And the violence part too, but that doesn't bother me as much.
Ryley: I'm gonna tell you right now, that doesn't bother me.
Kat: No.
Ryley: Cause like-
Kat: Kids are violent, sometimes.
Ryley: Kids are violent sometimes, and I, I don't know. That's just me. I don't.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: I'm less bothered by that.
Kat: It's just like that last scene where I'm like, ew.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: But anyway, he also says, Well, the objections are warranted and perhaps justified the Evil Child storyline has existed for years because it easily violates [00:26:00] our sense of rightness about children. And although the setup of the story makes you feel like you know where the story is taking you, the twist being thrown in works for the movie. And says that Esther dresses as if she were a Chuckie doll during Victorian times.
Ryley: so true though.
Kat: And then the unnecessary two plus hour run time is nearly worth it as the film really picks up the pace and the final 20 minutes. Sarsgaard isn't given much to do, although he is virtually incapable of giving a bad performance. Colet-Serra does a wonderful job framing the characters, but falls short when it comes to giving orphan the muscle it needed to be one of the best films of its genre in recent years. Resorts to graphic violence and artificial scares rather than allowing the," story build- stories built in anxiety and thrills to take over and says that at times it's as if the director does not trust the material.
Ryley: Interesting. Yeah with the fake outs. Um.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: I get that. Okay, I understand.
Kat: I think I see what he's saying.
Ryley: Yeah, I see what he's saying.
Kat: And then quote, "Ariana engineer," who plays [00:27:00] Max, By the way, "a real life death actress is almost equally as hypnotic as Fuhrman without uttering a single word. Throughout the film. Engineer's body language, facial expression, especially those eyes communicate far more without utterance than could many actresses with a full screenplay of dialogue." end quote.
That's awesome.
And then ends the review with quote, "while Orphan may not be the film it could be, it's far more intriguing and satisfying film than one might expect given its rather lame trailers that have been playing in theaters for months. Now, is Orphan morally reprehensible? Yes, actually it is. It's also surprisingly effective in satisfying thriller that reaches back into the history of evil child films, and perhaps even more so, plays upon the very real contemporary fears of a society in which children are increasingly capable of rather extraordinary evil, morally reprehensible Indeed," end quote. And I guess that's kind of what we were saying, like, children are capable of doing these things. No one wants to think that.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: But there are children who have done heinous things like this.
Ryley: True. He always makes such great points.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: I just do love that he's like, Yeah, [00:28:00] this movie isn't all that. It's morally reprehensible, but still good.
Kat: It's effective at what it's doing like.
Ryley: Exactly.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: I just love that. I just love that he, you know, you can admit both sides.
Kat: Mm-hmm. I have two more reviews, but this next one is from the horror show. No writer was listed on there, and the website seems to be taking a break. They say that for every good part of the movie, there's a mess up in another area, Good performances, and then there's editing blenders. There's nice visual style, and then there's a screenwriting screw up. And says quote, "full bore from stem to stern, but given the state of horror films in general, I suppose so-So from a studio horror flick is better than most of what we're offered these days." End quote. And I think that's a fair point. I don't think this movie is soso, but like there are a lot of really bad horror movies, so I think our, our, the bar is very low for a good one.
Ryley: You know what, There's some truth to that. There is some truth to that. I understand.
Kat: I don't think this one's that bad, but like.
Ryley: It's cheesy in a lot of ways, but I, like someone said, this movie's entertaining.
[00:29:00] Mm-hmm.
I watched the whole thing and we talked about like, it's like over 90 minutes. I forgot how long it is.
Kat: Two hours and three minutes.
Ryley: Two hours and three minutes. Doesn't feel like that.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: I'm, you know,
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: Feel it's, it's not, It's not bad.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: It's not bad.
Kat: Exactly. But they also mentioned that if you've seen the Omen, the Bad Seed, et cetera, then you've seen half of the Orphan already. They say quote, "directed crisply and with a palpable air of mid seventies paranoia thriller, Orphan takes its good sweet time and doling out the chills. But here's the irony. Most horror film talk bits are clumsy exposition at best, or time filling wheels spinning at worst, but Orphan seems very interested in, get this, setting up its characters," end quote.
Ryley: Yeah, it does. Absolutely.
Kat: Very animated in the writing in this one, if you can't tell.
Ryley: They were, they're very, um, Lot's of character.
Kat: I think that's a fair point too. Like this movie does actually take its time in setting up who these people are.
Ryley: And their backstory and all that.
Kat: And not every horror does that. Sometimes they just throw you into the middle of something.
Ryley: Exactly. Yeah, you just get these [00:30:00] canvases talking.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: With these people, like it's uh, it's a little bit more enriched.
Kat: But they say that those 30 minutes of setup are anchored by great work by Farmiga and Sarsgaard. Farmiga seems almost too good for such a basic horror film, but she brings a matter of fact vulnerability that elevates the film. I would say so too.
Ryley: She's really good in this movie.
Kat: Her and Sarsgaard carry a lot of it and Isabelle Fuhrman.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: They are really good actors. I don't think this movie would've been as good without them.
Ryley: Agreed.
Kat: They also say, quote, "the screenplay is actually interesting in a low key domestic way," End quote. And they, I think they mean that in a similar way to the first reviewer who was saying there were a lot of really good drama elements to the movie.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: If the rest of the film were at Farmiga's level, then this would be a classic. The movie goes downhill when they decide to adopt Esther.
Ryley: Oh. So they don't like
Kat: That's how the plot is.
Ryley: The orphan.
Kat: That's literally the plot. It does go downhill when they adopt Esther.
Ryley: Well, yeah.
Kat: But they end with quote, "so with strong performances, a confident visual approach and a more than [00:31:00] slightly familiar screenplay, that to be fair is a bit deeper than one might expect from a studio release horror flick, orphan would easily qualify for a weekend rental or a summer afternoon matinee, but not much more than that. After laying down a foundation with three such interesting characters, it's a bit of a disappointment when Orphan suddenly transforms into a rather standard killer kid movie. Orphan gives it a few strong tries, but seems to succumb to formula well before the end credits start to roll." End quote.
Ryley: I'm seeing a theme in a lot of the critics. They really like the drama of the family.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: More than they actually like the, The plot of the orphan coming.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: That's what I'm seeing.
Kat: It seems like for some of them, the twist wasn't enough to save the fact that they've seen a movie like it before, you know?
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: The character building with the drama and the family seemed a little bit more strong to them, I guess.
Ryley: Yeah. It, it sounds like they were just more interested in that, like it caught their attention more than.
Kat: And I understand that. I will say.
Ryley: Yeah.
Both: I get that.
Kat: But this is the last review from [00:32:00] Cinemaphile by David M. Keyes in 2009 who gave it a zero out of four.
Ryley: I'm nervous.
Kat: Okay, so starting with quote, "mere words fail me in my attempt to decipher the goal of Orphan, which is an angry, bitter and abhorrent display of masochism masquerading around as a legitimate horror film," end quote. Is, is horror filmmaking not a little bit of masochistic?
Ryley: Has he not seen a slasher film? ?
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: I'm sorry. Are, is he like, Does he really hate slasher films?
Kat: I don't know. It seems like this person does not watch horror films often.
Ryley: I hate people like that.
Kat: So the next, the next, they say it ignores the successful horror film formula by being neither horrific nor effective to substantial mental or physical purpose. So they kind of see that the violence in the movie is like pointless violence just to get a reaction out of the audience.
Ryley: I don't know if I necessarily agree with that.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: I mean, sure it's a movie, but it's also like Esther's evil and she's violent.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: I mean, if we're gonna drive home that she's evil, she's an evil adult, then we kinda have to drive home that she's evil. So yeah, she's gonna [00:33:00] push some kids off some slides.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: She's gonna kill a pigeon. I don't really get their point.
Kat: This person just seems a little, um, sensitive.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: Because they also say it's bad because it's showing these horrible things and doesn't care what anyone has to say about it. It's literally just clutching their pearls this this whole thing.
Ryley: This is what it sounds like like.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: They've never seen a horror movie before.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: Have you seen Halloween?
Kat: Yeah. Literally.
Ryley: It's much worse.
Kat: Have you seen Texas Chainsaw Massacre?
Ryley: Have you seen Texas Chainsaw Massacre? Oh my God.
Kat: But they also say the narrative failure is because it places realizations on characters who are either too vulnerable to challenge or too stupid to know how, which results in an unending antagonistic exercise in vulgarity and viciousness, which is played as over the top by actors that seem to be unaware that this is wrong. So they're saying like the characters that are being shown this evilness from Esther are either children, so they just are too vulnerable to stop it, or they're too stupid to realize it's happening. And they're saying that the actors must not realize how disgusting and awful this movie [00:34:00] is.
Ryley: Like the actors are morally wrong?
Kat: They're participating in this morally wrong movie.
Ryley: Okay. Again, I'm lost. I don't understand.
Kat: Right?
Ryley: Well, isn't that the point to show you like that's the scary part about this movie. Esther has this adult control over these children while trying to play a chi-. That's the, that's the point in the movie.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: It's that terrifying element that she has these control over children and children don't have a lot of power.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: And are scared and easily, you know, manipulated.
Kat: Yeah. That's the horror. Yeah.
Ryley: Also, that's just the plot in the movie. It's not happening. This isn't happening in real life. This person acts like this is,
Kat: It's not a documentary.
Ryley: This person acts like they don't know what a movie is.
Kat: Yeah, exactly.
Ryley: They think this actually happened.
Kat: Well, I mean, it did.
Ryley: Well, yeah.
Kat: That's what I was thinking the whole time I was reading this review. Literally the crime that this movie is based on, or that inspired this movie is a million times worse than what is happening in this movie.
Ryley: I just, this movie gets disturbing in some parts and I understand someone not liking for it, but it's a horror movie, kind of the point.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: It's gonna be [00:35:00] scary. It's gonna have, you know, horrible like bad things in it.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: Because it's a horror movie and there's a villain. Yeah this person like clutching your pearls, you said correct you said it exactly.
Kat: And they compare the writing in the film to a snuff film.
Ryley: Okay. Let's take it down a few notches it's. There are worse movies out there.
Kat: They got upset when the people in the theater, they were watching this movie in chuckled when Daniel pisses his pants.
Ryley: It's a movie, dude. It's not real. It's not happening.
Kat: And says that it has an awkward sense of tone and shamelessly shifts between heartfelt family moments and ruthless displays of macab that quote, "leave audience members feeling like their heart is being stomped on." it's like the other critic was upset that there was beautiful scenery with tragic things happening in front of it.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: It's literally a filmmaking device. That's where the unease comes from. It's like the juxtaposition of these two things.
Ryley: That's so frustrating to have to explain that to someone like that's on purpose. That's the point.
Kat: Did y'all not know this in 2009?
Ryley: Did you not go to film school?
Kat: Excuse me. You [00:36:00] shouldn't be writing about movies if you don't know anything about movies.
Ryley: Well, unless you wanna be made fun of by us.
Kat: Don't write a review of a horror movie, if you clearly cannot handle horror movies, is what this person needs to learn.
Ryley: This person sounds like this is their first horror movie ever.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: And they cannot believe what's in it. Is it? What is it a-
Kat: Are they a time traveler?
Ryley: Disturbing movie? Yeah, at times, but it's a horror movie. It, I don't understand.
Kat: Then they say that the twist was a shameless cop out.
Ryley: What?
Kat: I think the twist makes the movie exponentially better.
Ryley: Yeah. Cause if it was just a murderous child, that's kind of boring.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: Cause like the whole thing is like she's hiding stuff.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: It's, it's the mystery of it.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: You know? That's what keeps us going.
Kat: I don't think that the twist is unearned if this twist was just thrown in without any of that other stuff hinting that like something might be wrong with Esther, something's weird about Esther, then it wouldn't be earned.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: They end this review with quote, "Orphan is self aware of its atrocity and arrogant about it, and I am ashamed to admit that I even wasted the time to [00:37:00] volunteer two hours of my life to witness it unfold in all its repulsive grandeur." but I just, I wanted to include that. Cause I, I looked at it, I saw zero outta four and I was like, How bad could this review be? And it's literally just somebody who does not know how horror movies work.
Ryley: They write like they've never seen one before.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: I'm like, there are worse movies out there too.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: In my opinion.
Kat: Have you ever seen a Saw?
Ryley: Jesus, I think they would faint if they knew what Saw was.
Kat: They would implode.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: But that's the last critic review I have. Is there anything else you wanna say about this person or any of the other critics before I move on?
Ryley: No, I think I'm being mean already. Mean enough.
Kat: But we'll move on to the audience reviews now. The first review I have is a 10 out of 10 from IMDB from February of 2021 titled, "I'm Gonna Be Traumatized by Little Girls Now," they gave it a 10 outta 10. "Though I found it hard just to finish this movie considering how disturbing it was especially if you already find little kids a bit annoying."
Ryley: That's true. If you don't like kids, this movie's not gonna,
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: Like you think kids are [00:38:00] annoying in movies.
Kat: Or you? Yeah. You just hate kids in general or?
Ryley: Cause I think kids are annoyed at movies.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: But like, I don't know. Everyone does really well in this movie.
Kat: Great child actors.
Ryley: They are very, very good. But like, I guess Esther, her character is just so she does obnoxious things.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: And torments the family. So if you don't like that kind of stuff, you're probably not gonna like the movie.
Kat: Yeah. If you need more reason to hate children, I guess watch this. But she's not really a child, so.
Ryley: Yeah. I mean technically in the movie.
Kat: Yeah. And then the next review I have is from Letterboxd no Stars. It says, "When Vera Farmiga said, I'm not your fucking mommy. I felt that."
Ryley: I love no star reviews on Letterboxd. They will- it could be anything.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: That's so good. I felt that.
Kat: The next one's a one out of 10 from IMDB titled, "Far Too Predictable" from November of 2019. "Good original idea, but it was far too predictable with annoying and unbelievable characters. The husband mumbles about throughout the entire film with his eyes half [00:39:00] closed as if he stoned all the time. He turns against his wife and refuses to listen to her at the earliest opportunity and sides with the orphan. Young children watching the orphan murder people as they are present and they don't cry, have nightmares about it or wet the bed, et cetera. There is no change to their personality, and they don't think about telling their parents, we know how blunt and forthright children can be, so the parents don't notice anything is wrong. I stopped watching 20 minutes before the end."
Ryley: Oh, you can't write review then.
Kat: They didn't know the twist.
Ryley: They don't know the twist. They don't know the twist. That's the funniest bit. They don't know the twist.
Kat: They would've given it more stars if they saw it to the twist.
Ryley: You gotta kinda wait to see the twist.
Kat: But I mean, I guess if they watched in 2019, it's possible they already knew the twist.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: But-
Ryley: That's so funny. I have a few things to say cuz I understand the frustration with like the husband not believing the wife. That's, that's something that I find frustrated this movie as well. I know that's part of [00:40:00] it.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: So it's not necessarily that I'm taking points off of it.
Kat: No.
Ryley: Cause the movie knows what it's doing. It put it in there on purpose.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: I understand how someone can find that annoying though.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: Them saying, Oh, why wouldn't the kids just say what's happening? I'm sorry. How-
Kat: She threatened them.
Ryley: Like, cuz like that's a thing you could easily say like, Oh, why wouldn't the kids just say something? Well, think about it kids, first off, Esther's making threats to her.
Kat: Mm-hmm. To both kids.
Ryley: Say, if you say anything, I'll kill them.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: You do anything, I'll kill them. You know? And that's how kids are scared.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: Kids are scared. That happens all the time with horrible, horrible things that happen to kids.
Kat: It's not outlandish. It's just a truth that nobody wants to face. I get it.
Ryley: Exactly. That happens all the time. I think it's very realistic.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: That the kids would be too scared to what to uh, say anything.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: I think that's a very realistic concept to the movie.
Kat: They're critiquing the kids more for not saying anything.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: They've never seen somebody do any of this stuff that she's done [00:41:00] before. They don't know how to react to that.
Ryley: Exactly. Exactly. They don't know how to react to that.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: And also they didn't watch the last 20 minutes. You have to. That was actually, sorry, the best part.
Kat: So funny that they didn't finish the movie. Literally. You can't do that with this movie. You have to finish it.
Ryley: Not with this movie, not the last 20 minutes. I love the idea that they don't know that what the twist is though. I kind of really wanna, I wanna hope they never found out what the twist was.
Kat: Me too. Me too. That makes this so much funnier.
Ryley: Oh yeah.
Kat: The next review is three stars from Letterboxd from 2021 that just says, "Dermatologists hate her." The next one is also from Letterboxd and is three stars from 2020 that says "No cuz men are so dumb actually."
Ryley: It's true though. If it wasn't for the dad, none of this would've happened.
Kat: Mm-hmm. This next one is a one out of 10 from 2009 from IMDB titled "Irritatingly Bad Flick." "I can't stand horror flicks where all kinds of really suspenseful and horrible manipulations happen because all the characters are either too stupid to catch on or too [00:42:00] chicken to do anything about it. The whole deftly manipulative sociopath formula only works when the surrounding characters are of a believable intelligence and psychological depth. Here, nah. Check out the dad in particular. The moron is supposedly a successful architect. Right. But a smart supporting cast wouldn't have worked here, because guess what? The villain ain't too bright either. Most times I sit down with a flick like this, I can be a good sport about it and get entertainment value from the giggles and forehead slaps, but this one takes itself too seriously for that and has the gall to go on for two hours. So it was just an irritating waste of time. I'm kicking myself for sticking it to the end.
Ryley: I don't want to agree with them. I think she's pretty smart and manipulative. I do agree. The dad's dumb. Absolutely.
Kat: Oh yeah. But yeah, no, I, I agree. I agree with a lot of the things they're saying. Um, but I don't think saying too chicken to do anything should really apply to the children.
Ryley: No, I don't agree.
Kat: Um, and the mom was being manipulated thinking that she [00:43:00] was just overexaggerating all of it.
Ryley: Like I wanna agree with them cuz they're kind of making like they're making funny points but like, I don't know.
Kat: We're still entertained by this movie is the thing.
Ryley: I'm still entertained by it. They couldn't get the funniness out of it cuz they thought it was too serious.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: I'm still entertained by it.
Kat: Yeah. But the next one is from September 10th, 2022. Three Stars Letterboxd. "This film made me feel more unsettled than I realized it would. Gotta give credit where credit's due, she was incredibly talented for someone her age. She knew the assignment and delivered."
Ryley: Are they talking about Esther?
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: Okay, good. Yeah, absolutely.
Kat: She did her job.
Ryley: That's the thing.
Kat: This one is a one out of 10 from IMDb titled "One of the worst movies I've seen" from 2021. "Just finished this movie two minutes ago, and I can say it was so unrealistic that was not even scary. All the characters are like too stupid or everyone wants to be killed by her. Seriously, don't even bother watching this."
Ryley: I love how your voice changed in the middle of reading that. I'm not saying characters are not making stupid decisions in this movie, but like, yeah, I [00:44:00] don't know.
Kat: It's par for the course.
Ryley: Go along with it, you know?
Kat: Cause this shit wouldn't happen if everyone was logical.
Ryley: They said-. That's the thing. If at this point in time, if you can't get, if you can't get on the horror movie trope of the no logical person would make that decision, don't watch a horror movie then.
Kat: Like I-
Ryley: Because you're-
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: They're not gonna make the right decision.
Kat: But also sometimes you'll realize that if you get into like a ghost, like a paranormal situation, you're probably gonna try and dismiss it for as long as you can too.
Ryley: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kat: And like stay in the same house. Like not everyone is so quick to just be like, Okay, let's move.
Ryley: That's, that's the thing. You have to think like, we know there's something wrong.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: They're figuring out something is wrong.
Kat: Yeah. They don't know they're in a horror movie.
Ryley: It's more realistic than you think. I don't think this movie's that wildly dumb.
Kat: No. I just feel like these people that say these things are really bad at conflict resolution.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: Like it's never their fault when something goes wrong kind of people. If that makes sense.
Ryley: Oh yeah.
Kat: Cause it's like if you can't see that people have a different context in situations than you [00:45:00] have, then nothing's gonna make sense to you.
Ryley: I love that. That's so funny. That's such a deep analysis on someone who writes that kinda stuff.
Kat: You know, me reading into things too hard.
Ryley: That's so fucking funny.
Kat: Half star on Letterboxd from 2022. "Never seen this, but I vividly remember an advert on the telephone box in Crawley giving me nightmares so thanks at ton."
Ryley: I love it. They never even seen it.
Kat: Well, I saw it Billboard for this movie, so I know it's terrifying.
Ryley: Half a Star. I love at least half a Star. Not even zero Stars.
Kat: Yeah. Oh, I think it was Fern Gully or um, Secrets of Nimh, one of those where people were like, Why like, kids shouldn't watch this. It's gonna terrify them. It's like you never know what's gonna scare a kid. Like this person was scared by an advertisement of a movie.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: I was the kind of kid where it's like, I'd be scared of like, yeah, I'd be scared of like the advertisement and then watch something that's definitely scarier and be fine.
Ryley: I was the type of kid that would purposely go to the horror section to Blockbuster and look at the boxes of the pictures of the movie and scare myself.
Kat: Mm. And [00:46:00] then if you were to watch those, you would've been like, Oh.
Ryley: Oh. Exactly.
Kat: Cause you're making up your own what happens in that movie in your head.
Ryley: Exactly.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: Like that.
Kat: I did the same thing.
Ryley: That one creepy face one. It's not really human.
Kat: Hell Raiser?
Ryley: Uh, what is it?
Kat: Hell Raiser, with the pins.
Ryley: Not, Hell Raiser. It's like, it's a really close up face. It's not.
Kat: Is it Halloween?
Ryley: It's not Halloween. It's, I would have to look it up. It's, it's like a really notoriously bad movie, but it scared the crap just looking at the picture scared the crap at me and like it given, Yeah.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: It makes sense. I found it.
Kat: What was it?
Ryley: It's this one. You probably recognize it.
Kat: Oh, I've never seen that before.
Ryley: You never, you never saw the cover in Blockbuster. I don't know what the name of this, It's like one missed call. That's what it's called.
Kat: Oh, oh.
Ryley: Probably terrible.
Kat: We probably went to the same blockbuster. Was it the one by the gas station?
Ryley: Yeah, I was there all the time. Oh my gosh.
Kat: We probably saw each other. I probably pushed you or something.
Ryley: Probably pushed me outta the way. You probably saw me and Madison like dashing through the aisles cause we were chasing each other.
Kat: You were probably the [00:47:00] kids that my mom looked at and went, Oh God, thank God my kids aren't doing that.
Ryley: More than likely. Oh my God, that's so fucking funny.
Kat: Yeah, we were probably there at the same time. That's so w-
Ryley: That is crazy.
Kat: I'm surprised. We never thought of that. That's wild.
Ryley: I know.
Kat: I remember one missed call. I don't remember that poster though.
Ryley: You don't remember that face?
Kat: Mm-mm.
Ryley: I remember always seeing that face going, that has to be the scariest movie alive.
Kat: We'll watch it one day and we'll find out.
Ryley: Yeah, We'll put that on our list at some point.
Kat: Mm-hmm. Four and a half stars on Letterboxd 2021. "If Vera Farmiga is your wife and she tells you some fucked up evil shit is happening, you listen to her. She is correct."
Ryley: Exactly. Thank you.
Kat: Yeah. One out of 10 titled "One Word Moronic," from 2011 on IMDb, "there comes a point when people should be banned from making movies. When you make-" that's it. You're outta here.
Ryley: This is a crime.
Kat: "When you make an atrocity like orphan, there is no redemption. I really don't know where to start. Maybe with rich, endlessly irritating main characters who deserve whatever they [00:48:00] got, or with a plot that has a hole after hole and nothing to show for it. Or even better sickening flirtation with child pornography and mindless suspense less violence, people are entitled to make a mistake or make a bad even awful movie. What they are not entitled to is this perverse exercise in pushing the boundaries without consequences. This is a shameful piece of garbage not even worth a second glance."
Ryley: They have some points.
Kat: They have points. They do.
Ryley: They have points. I will say maybe the rich, endlessly irritating main characters. Yes, they are rich. So do they deserve it? Yes.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: Two, does the dad deserve to die? Yes.
Kat: Absolutely.
Ryley: I do agree with those points.
Kat: Mm.
Ryley: And they do have other points. I understand.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: I understand where they're coming from.
Kat: I do too. I do too. I understand where they're coming from with like the sickening flirtation with it cuz they didn't outright say that's what it was, they said that the movie was kind of flirting and like tip toeing along the lines of being that and yeah, I see where they're coming from.
Ryley: They're not wrong.
Kat: They are not wrong. No. The next one is from September of 2022 on Letterboxd, half star. "That last [00:49:00] scene where her neck turns 90 degrees is making me give this movie a half star more than it deserves."
Ryley: What?
Kat: The death was so satisfying for them.
Ryley: Oh yes.
Kat: That they gave it a half star instead of zero.
Ryley: Okay. Yeah.
Kat: That's fair.
Ryley: You know what I'm gonna say it, yeah the death scene's pretty it's pretty great.
Kat: Yes. Next one is from September of 2011, one out of 10 titled "second worst movie I've ever seen," on IMDb. "This is the second worst movie I've ever seen. Whoever wrote impressive comment is an idiot. I know you're wondering, the first worst movie is Bug." which I've never seen.
Ryley: Uh, I've never, I don't think I've heard of it.
Kat: Oh, no. Yeah, this looks really bad. Bug. Maybe we'll do that one day. This one's about a, an unhinged war veteran.
Ryley: Is Michael Shannon in it?
Kat: Yeah, he's, I think he's the unhinged war veteran.
Ryley: Oh.
Kat: But anyway, so the first, the first worst movie is Bug. "Really, she is a 30 something year old with a growth problem of a nine year old? I was following you until that," like nobody has that disorder? They didn't say that. I did. Like no one has that? Like, does this [00:50:00] person think they, the movie made that up?
Ryley: Is it real? It's real, right?
Kat: Yeah. Because the case that inspired it.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: Literally the, the woman had the same hypopituitarism.
Ryley: And literally it's like it's hormone hormones that,
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: You know, hormone grows happen all the time in different ways. So-
Kat: That's the craziest part to them?
Ryley: Yeah. It's not that crazy to believe.
Kat: No. Um, but anyway, okay. "Luckily I download my stuff or I'd say I want my money back. But the director should never be able to direct again. I made the mistake of watching this with my lady and trying to get laid, but she literally walked out after the hook. I hoped there might be more. I'm a pessimist. Now I'm stuck with myself wondering why the writer even got the opportunity for Warner Brothers to pay for this crap. I'm so confused. Not by the movie, but by Warner Brothers. Why would you do this to me and at least the 400,000 other people who watched it? Do not watch this. You'll never get your time back and you will seriously kick yourself in the ass to hemorrhoids. Save yourself the pain and do not watch this stupid movie." So he was trying to watch this movie with his [00:51:00] girlfriend or whatever, and and did not get laid.
Ryley: Tr- that that's where the real, the real hate is coming from.
Kat: My girlfriend got upset over this movie and wouldn't fuck me. It's literally what it is.
Ryley: Yeah exactly.
Kat: That and admitted to illegally downloading it.
Ryley: I love that.
Kat: I love that.
Ryley: I, This review is so unhinged. I really like It.
Kat: Doesn't believe Hypopituitarism is real.
Ryley: It is so funny. I love this. This is a great review.
Kat: So August 2022 Letterboxd. "This movie I think is actually evil. If there is a God who has any interest in us and our wellbeing," then he sure. "Then surely he considers this movie to be an enemy. There is no room in the kingdom of heaven for movie such as this. I'd probably give it a seven out of 10."
Ryley: I, I recognize their profile picture. I don't think they ever put stars. So you never know what they're gonna be saying about the movie. I love that.
Kat: Yeah. Four and a half stars from from Letterboxd in 2019. They start with the quote, "I thought you said there was nothing wrong with being different," from Esther.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: "Finally a film willing to shit on [00:52:00] orphans. I have 95% on Esther's side and I love this fucking movie. Family adopts kid from old time Catholic orphanage like no one, like ones that don't exist here. Turns out this girl is not to be fucked with. I really enjoy the vibe of this film. Isabelle Fuhrman will haunt my daymares for years to come and Vera Farmiga is a dream. Ha ha ha. That is a lame sentence, but I like it. The film is effectively creepy and interesting. The ending was a little obvious, but this isn't really a mystery anyway. I suppose this is the mirror verse version of Instant Family. I don't really like Peter Sarsgaard in this at all. John C. Riley plays a better version of this sort of role and We Need to Talk About Kevin, but other than that, I have almost not, not complaints about this. I have seen some people complain about the length, but that didn't bother me, I will be revisiting."
Ryley: I really like this review. I think they kinda,
Kat: This is what I would've written when I first,
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: When I watched this movie again in high school, I've been like, Yeah, this is, I love the energy of this movie. I don't side with Esther, but I, I do love the energy.
Ryley: I think it's funny [00:53:00] that they do.
Kat: Yes. But they are, they're kinda write. I think John c Riley's version of this character is really good.
Ryley: It's very interesting because it's the same character like, you know, the dad that doesn't believe the wife or is on the child's side.
Kat: It has never been shown that side of the child.
Ryley: Exactly.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: But with, we need to talk about Kevin there. It's kind of, there's a different angle to how the Mom
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: Because like there's a lot of evidence in that movie.
Kat: The mom had some effect on his behavior.
Ryley: Yeah. Well, is she like you know she didn't wanna be pregnant.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: She didn't.
Kat: She, she-
Ryley: She wanted to keep traveling and didn't want a child.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: And he heard her say that to him.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: She broke his arm.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: Just like a lot of things where I get like, I, it's like I understand the dad a little bit more in We Need to Talk About Kevin.
Kat: Yeah. Exactly what you said. Like it makes sense for him to be acting that way towards her because she has not shown-
Ryley: There's resentment.
Kat: [00:54:00] Yeah. Like he knows how she feels about the kids. So everything she says about him that he's doing just seems harder to believe to him and that makes sense. But John really doesn't have a, like she is fully tried her best to build that trust back.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: And it crumbles so easily when he still has a lot of trust to be building back with her too.
Ryley: Exactly. Where I, apparently the movie hasn't worked on anything cuz he's still flirting with women and still willing to, uh, be unfaithful.
Kat: Mm-hmm. Exactly, and yeah, I do I do really like how this person put everything except for I don't don't side with Esther.
Ryley: I think it's funny, I think it's a little funny to side with Esther.
Kat: It is funny. I think it's easier to side with her in the In Orphan first kill.
Ryley: Definitely.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: And that that's what the interesting thing about that movie is, is like you kind of flip.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: You kind of flip it to Esther's side.
Kat: Yeah. But we won't go into it too much cuz we will be covering that movie next week.
Ryley: Exactly, yes.
Kat: But I'll move on to the next one. Back to negative ones. I don't know why I put that positive one there. I [00:55:00] think I was just putting them in as I found them.
Ryley: I like that one though.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: That was good.
Kat: I did too. This next one is Three Stars from September of 2022 on Letterboxd. "This film Give gave me another reason why I hate children. But really, this is a perfect family movie night, you could show it to your child and tell them what not to be. Who knows, it could be very effective when it comes to parenting. After all, the world is changing."
Ryley: Oh my God, do not take this man's advice, this person's advice.
Kat: Yeah. That I don't think this is a good parenting tool.
Ryley: No.
Kat: Um, I feel like maybe you should parent your kids to a point where they know that killing people's wrong.
Ryley: I, I feel like this shouldn't be the movie to teach them that.
Kat: That crime is something you can tattle tail on sometimes, depending on the crime.
Ryley: Depending.
Kat: This next one is a two out of 10 from IMDb from 2011 titled "one word: awful." This is the second person to, to title it like that one word, whatever word the last person used.
Ryley: Moronic or something.
Kat: Moronic. Yeah, Moronic. Um, "if you enjoy watching Law and Order," SVU [00:56:00] or SVU they put SUV, a law and order.
Ryley: I would do that. I would so do that.
Kat: "Or criminal minds or hostile, and you have been diagnosed as not a threat to those around you than you might enjoy Orphan. A horribly made movie that isn't the about the sexualization of children, but really is about that more than anything else. You can excuse it any way you want with any plot twist you want, but that is what this film is really about. I feel bad for all the children for having to participate in this and I feel ashamed of Vera Farmiga and Peter Sarsgaard for involving themselves and eventually involving me because I watched it because they were in it. Little kids participating in murder and wanted to participate in sex, no matter what excuse you give is sick exploitation. Oh, it also was not scary." I see what they're saying. You can't really excuse that part of the movie.
Ryley: Exactly.
Kat: Three Stars Letterboxd 2021, "Esther Thee Orphan," spelled like Megan Thee Stallion.
Ryley: Oh, I love that.
Kat: "Esther Thee Orphan was so [00:57:00] rude and violent. I'm fucking obsessed. Like she had no qualms, bludgeoning nuns, or breaking girls' legs or burning little boys alive. All she wanted was some dick. Daddy issues are sexy! Now manifesting an orphan girl Summer."
Ryley: This is like the opposite.
Kat: The juxtaposition
Ryley: That's the opposite of what we just read. Oh my.
Kat: It really is.
Ryley: God. It's kind of funny though.
Kat: It is. It is funny.
Ryley: I guess the, for the character of the movie, it's, you know,
Kat: Yes. Yeah. This next one's from Google reviews. One star from a year ago. "I let my two year old daughter watch this and she's fearing her life and I can't make it stop." Why would you let your two year old daughter watch this?
Ryley: That's bad parenting.
Kat: That is, That's on you, not the movie.
Ryley: No. Yeah. No. That's the thing. Like why you blame the movie? You let your two year old watch this.
Kat: The last review I have is four stars from 2019. "Closing out Halloween with one of the most genuinely deranged modern horror films and a personal favorite. There's obviously a great history of horror about gaslighting and parental anxiety, but this is the one that makes me the most [00:58:00] viscerally queasy. For material like this the performances and craft alone are impressive, Colett-Serra brings some incredible cross-cutting and camera moves, but I'm most taken with how it just leans full throttle into the nastiest trashiest impulses, including a never ending onslaught of perverse child endangerment and violence set pieces that are so beyond poor taste I can't help but respect that they made it into the final movie, and Warner Brothers agreed to release it." That really summed it all up, didn't it?
Ryley: Ye- it really did. It really did. Yep. Perfect last review.
Kat: The acting was great and you respect the balls on these filmmakers to put them in the put half of the shit that happens in this movie in there to begin with.
Ryley: Yeah.
Kat: Like I honestly am kind of racking my brain at how to feel about it now.
Ryley: Yes. Same.
Kat: Do, do you wanna go ahead and say like, your final thoughts?
Ryley: Um.
Kat: Or try to, We can try to make sense of them together if you want?
Ryley: Just, Yeah. Cuz it, it is one of those things where like, cuz I remember like fast [00:59:00] forwarding through those scenes.
Kat: Yeah. I skipped over that part.
Ryley: Cuz they're very uncomfortable to watch. But I didn't even realize that she I didn't know she was 10.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: I didn't know like, what the actresses age was. I didn't know if they were doing, I didn't know, cuz I, I was thinking maybe she was like, she just looks that young.
Kat: Yeah. The thing about this mo the acting performances are great. The like twist at the end is great. Like the watching experience of it is very entertaining movie and it's very like, just entertaining to watch and scary and disturbing.
Ryley: Mm-hmm.
Kat: But when you really think about the fact that, especially the scene between Esther and the dad, This is a 10 year old actress who has to be acting in this way. And it's definitely not the worst onscreen thing that a movie has made a child actor do.
Ryley: Oh yeah.
Kat: But it is a step in the wrong direction.
Ryley: Mm-hmm. Definitely.
Kat: So outside of that, I feel like it is a really entertaining good movie.
Ryley: Yes.
Kat: But that part of it really [01:00:00] muddies a lot of it.
Ryley: Oh yeah, definitely.
Kat: And I think because of that and just to like, I'm think I'm gonna give it like a four.
Ryley: Yeah. I'll go with that too.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: Because, you know, at the end of the day, that's that concept still in the movie.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: Yeah. And that's probably re relevant too of like I, I like this movie outside of what we just talked about. I like this movie.
Kat: Mm-hmm.
Ryley: But it is cheesy.
Kat: It is. It is.
Ryley: It is a cheesy movie.
Kat: Yeah.
Ryley: So it kind of deserves.
Kat: Lower.
Ryley: That relevant. Still entertaining though.
Kat: No, exactly that. I see exactly what you're saying. Is there anything else you wanted to add?
Ryley: No.
Kat: Okay. So as everybody might know at this point, we are going to be watching or doing a horror movie marathon until Halloween. Maybe a little bit after. I don't know. We love horror movies. If you have any suggestions that we can get around to before we finish doing this horror movie marathon, feel free to message us. Like you heard last week, we had someone send in stuff through Instagram over the dms, and [01:01:00] everyone is welcome to do that. And we also have a TikTok. Both of those are at Easy Bake Takes. We have transcripts of all the podcasts on our website. Easy Bake Takes podcast.com. And you can also find links to our social medias there. Don't forget to rate, re rate review and follow us wherever you get your podcasts. And also, thank you so much for listening. My name's Kat
Ryley: and I'm Ryley.
Kat: This has been Easy Bake Takes. Easy watching out there.
Ryley: Bye.
Kat: Bye.